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	<title>Comments on: Alliance savages Key&#039;s plan for &quot;Little America&quot;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://alliance.org.nz/2009/03/19/alliance-savages-keys-plan-for-little-america/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://alliance.org.nz/2009/03/19/alliance-savages-keys-plan-for-little-america/</link>
	<description>New Zealand&#039;s democratic socialist party</description>
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		<title>By: Victor Billot</title>
		<link>http://alliance.org.nz/2009/03/19/alliance-savages-keys-plan-for-little-america/#comment-219</link>
		<dc:creator>Victor Billot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Mar 2009 07:42:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.alliance.org.nz/?p=864#comment-219</guid>
		<description>Thank you for your message Hikmet, and taking the time to write it again.
I appreciate your thoughts and agree it is a remarkable thing that people from very different places and backgrounds can communicate using the internet to discuss these matters.
Your goal of working together for the common good is one that all people of goodwill can share, and in our own ways contribute according to our ability and culture.
I hope one day your wish to visit New Zealand is fulfilled. We would certainly like to hear from you if you are ever in our part of the world.
All the best for your endeavours, and kind regards
Victor</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for your message Hikmet, and taking the time to write it again.<br />
I appreciate your thoughts and agree it is a remarkable thing that people from very different places and backgrounds can communicate using the internet to discuss these matters.<br />
Your goal of working together for the common good is one that all people of goodwill can share, and in our own ways contribute according to our ability and culture.<br />
I hope one day your wish to visit New Zealand is fulfilled. We would certainly like to hear from you if you are ever in our part of the world.<br />
All the best for your endeavours, and kind regards<br />
Victor</p>
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		<title>By: Hikmet Kutlu</title>
		<link>http://alliance.org.nz/2009/03/19/alliance-savages-keys-plan-for-little-america/#comment-218</link>
		<dc:creator>Hikmet Kutlu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Mar 2009 14:50:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.alliance.org.nz/?p=864#comment-218</guid>
		<description>Hi,

It really took some time yesterday for me to respond to your message; I am sorry it disappeared in the the cyber space.  I will just go with highlights this time.

First, I find it interesting that here we are, you from New Zealand, and I, originally a native of Turkey and now a naturalized citizen of the US, communicating across the globe on issues important to ourselves as well as to the humanity.  I grew up in the era when I surprised the heck out of my classmates by a portable tape recorder I took to school.  By today&#039;s standards, a tape recorder is of stone age (maybe bronze).

You&#039;re right, I think we deep inside agree more than disagree.  It&#039;s only that you represent the government and I, the the world of philanthropy. Thus, our convictions with the worlds we represent cause for us to perhaps underestimate a little the importance of the other.

My point is the answer lies in the sincere partnerships between government, business, interested individuals and nonprofit sector.  No one can tackle today&#039;s complex problems alone; there is a lot more at stake in our so called modern times than one&#039;s stomach getting filled or his/her health restored.

Let me take a simple step then.  Hello, Victor.  I respect what you&#039;re doing/want to be doing, can we check to see how we can collaborate to serve the same common good?  That&#039;s the spirit I would like to see in every corner of this planet.

On a separate note, New Zealand is one of the few places I haven&#039;t seen yet in this world, and I would love to visit someday.  I understand it is divinely beautiful.

Meanwhile, if I can be of assistance in any way, I am as far away as your computer is from you.

Cordially,
Hikmet</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi,</p>
<p>It really took some time yesterday for me to respond to your message; I am sorry it disappeared in the the cyber space.  I will just go with highlights this time.</p>
<p>First, I find it interesting that here we are, you from New Zealand, and I, originally a native of Turkey and now a naturalized citizen of the US, communicating across the globe on issues important to ourselves as well as to the humanity.  I grew up in the era when I surprised the heck out of my classmates by a portable tape recorder I took to school.  By today&#8217;s standards, a tape recorder is of stone age (maybe bronze).</p>
<p>You&#8217;re right, I think we deep inside agree more than disagree.  It&#8217;s only that you represent the government and I, the the world of philanthropy. Thus, our convictions with the worlds we represent cause for us to perhaps underestimate a little the importance of the other.</p>
<p>My point is the answer lies in the sincere partnerships between government, business, interested individuals and nonprofit sector.  No one can tackle today&#8217;s complex problems alone; there is a lot more at stake in our so called modern times than one&#8217;s stomach getting filled or his/her health restored.</p>
<p>Let me take a simple step then.  Hello, Victor.  I respect what you&#8217;re doing/want to be doing, can we check to see how we can collaborate to serve the same common good?  That&#8217;s the spirit I would like to see in every corner of this planet.</p>
<p>On a separate note, New Zealand is one of the few places I haven&#8217;t seen yet in this world, and I would love to visit someday.  I understand it is divinely beautiful.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, if I can be of assistance in any way, I am as far away as your computer is from you.</p>
<p>Cordially,<br />
Hikmet</p>
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		<title>By: Victor Billot</title>
		<link>http://alliance.org.nz/2009/03/19/alliance-savages-keys-plan-for-little-america/#comment-217</link>
		<dc:creator>Victor Billot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2009 20:33:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.alliance.org.nz/?p=864#comment-217</guid>
		<description>Sorry Hikmet, I checked the spam filter to see if your post had been accidentally held back but I couldn&#039;t find anything. Not sure why your comment didn&#039;t come through. Please write it again if you have time. Regards, Victor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry Hikmet, I checked the spam filter to see if your post had been accidentally held back but I couldn&#8217;t find anything. Not sure why your comment didn&#8217;t come through. Please write it again if you have time. Regards, Victor.</p>
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		<title>By: Hikmet Kutlu</title>
		<link>http://alliance.org.nz/2009/03/19/alliance-savages-keys-plan-for-little-america/#comment-216</link>
		<dc:creator>Hikmet Kutlu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2009 19:09:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.alliance.org.nz/?p=864#comment-216</guid>
		<description>I posted another message, was it refused?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I posted another message, was it refused?</p>
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		<title>By: Victor Billot</title>
		<link>http://alliance.org.nz/2009/03/19/alliance-savages-keys-plan-for-little-america/#comment-215</link>
		<dc:creator>Victor Billot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Mar 2009 04:43:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.alliance.org.nz/?p=864#comment-215</guid>
		<description>Hi Hikmet, thanks for your reply. Actually I think in some ways we may agree, in some areas.

Let me expand on my original point.

As a democratic socialist, I am very much in favour of your idea of sharing without expecting anything in return to make a change.

However, my view is that these values should be present throughout all of society. Rather than having a basically greed driven, ruthless economic system and selfish society with a little tag on charity sector to make people feel good about themselves, we should aspire to having a fair and just society where the citizens collectively provide for public goods, in many cases the best way of doing this is through progressive taxation funding health, education etc.

My concern is that charity can be used to justify an inhumane system, and in some ways can also be very patronizing. For example, unemployed workers don&#039;t need handouts from well meaning middle class people, they need a system change where jobs and wealth are shared more equally.

One thing I disagree on is your idea that you can keep politics out of the human spirit. The idea of the human spirit is a pretty phoney one to me; it can mean anything depending on whatever society you live in, and usually just means going along with the dominant ideas of the ruling class in your society which are pounded into everyones head through the media. Politics are a part of everything; pretending they don&#039;t exist is naive.

I certainly would not say that there is not an important role for volunteer work and community organizations - there is and there should be. But when the Government, to protect the interests of the very rich, abandons its role of administering the basic requirements of any civilized nation, then charity will never fill that gap.

As you can see I have much in common with your views about putting something back into society. But I guess my point is that if people are so in favour of charity in the USA, why can&#039;t they sort out providing universal health care paid for through taxation. Then the poor would have some dignity rather than being at the mercy of whether there are enough philanthropists out there to help them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Hikmet, thanks for your reply. Actually I think in some ways we may agree, in some areas.</p>
<p>Let me expand on my original point.</p>
<p>As a democratic socialist, I am very much in favour of your idea of sharing without expecting anything in return to make a change.</p>
<p>However, my view is that these values should be present throughout all of society. Rather than having a basically greed driven, ruthless economic system and selfish society with a little tag on charity sector to make people feel good about themselves, we should aspire to having a fair and just society where the citizens collectively provide for public goods, in many cases the best way of doing this is through progressive taxation funding health, education etc.</p>
<p>My concern is that charity can be used to justify an inhumane system, and in some ways can also be very patronizing. For example, unemployed workers don&#8217;t need handouts from well meaning middle class people, they need a system change where jobs and wealth are shared more equally.</p>
<p>One thing I disagree on is your idea that you can keep politics out of the human spirit. The idea of the human spirit is a pretty phoney one to me; it can mean anything depending on whatever society you live in, and usually just means going along with the dominant ideas of the ruling class in your society which are pounded into everyones head through the media. Politics are a part of everything; pretending they don&#8217;t exist is naive.</p>
<p>I certainly would not say that there is not an important role for volunteer work and community organizations &#8211; there is and there should be. But when the Government, to protect the interests of the very rich, abandons its role of administering the basic requirements of any civilized nation, then charity will never fill that gap.</p>
<p>As you can see I have much in common with your views about putting something back into society. But I guess my point is that if people are so in favour of charity in the USA, why can&#8217;t they sort out providing universal health care paid for through taxation. Then the poor would have some dignity rather than being at the mercy of whether there are enough philanthropists out there to help them.</p>
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		<title>By: Hikmet Kutlu</title>
		<link>http://alliance.org.nz/2009/03/19/alliance-savages-keys-plan-for-little-america/#comment-214</link>
		<dc:creator>Hikmet Kutlu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 18:51:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.alliance.org.nz/?p=864#comment-214</guid>
		<description>Incidentally, most of $295 billion donated in 2007 in America came from middle class people.  Add to that more than 10 billion hours of volunteer work and one gets the picture: the power of philanthropy. Is anybody reminded of the 19th century throgh this picture?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Incidentally, most of $295 billion donated in 2007 in America came from middle class people.  Add to that more than 10 billion hours of volunteer work and one gets the picture: the power of philanthropy. Is anybody reminded of the 19th century throgh this picture?</p>
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		<title>By: Hikmet Kutlu</title>
		<link>http://alliance.org.nz/2009/03/19/alliance-savages-keys-plan-for-little-america/#comment-213</link>
		<dc:creator>Hikmet Kutlu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 18:36:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.alliance.org.nz/?p=864#comment-213</guid>
		<description>It seems Mr. Billot&#039;s understanding of charity is rather narrow.  His point for the government assuming greater responsibilities for the well being of its people is naturally well taken, but no government in this world is resourceful and compassionate enough for every cause present in a society.  He could serve his people better if he tried to understand physical standard of living is essential but only one part of the wide spectrum of charity and kept the politics out of human spirit at its best: sharing without expecting anything in return to make a change.  As a matter of fact, in America we believe when one makes a gift, he/she is not solely separated from his money, but is given a valuable token in return: helping to enrich life in every level.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems Mr. Billot&#8217;s understanding of charity is rather narrow.  His point for the government assuming greater responsibilities for the well being of its people is naturally well taken, but no government in this world is resourceful and compassionate enough for every cause present in a society.  He could serve his people better if he tried to understand physical standard of living is essential but only one part of the wide spectrum of charity and kept the politics out of human spirit at its best: sharing without expecting anything in return to make a change.  As a matter of fact, in America we believe when one makes a gift, he/she is not solely separated from his money, but is given a valuable token in return: helping to enrich life in every level.</p>
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		<title>By: Victor Billot &#124; That&#8217;s very generous of you . . . sir</title>
		<link>http://alliance.org.nz/2009/03/19/alliance-savages-keys-plan-for-little-america/#comment-212</link>
		<dc:creator>Victor Billot &#124; That&#8217;s very generous of you . . . sir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Mar 2009 03:15:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.alliance.org.nz/?p=864#comment-212</guid>
		<description>[...] small mention here at Tumeke for my comments today about our Prime Minister who craves to see the warm and friendly hand of charity extended to [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] small mention here at Tumeke for my comments today about our Prime Minister who craves to see the warm and friendly hand of charity extended to [...]</p>
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